17:09:01 <heidi> #startmeeting
17:09:02 <tota11y> Meeting started Fri Mar 29 17:09:01 2013 CET.  The chair is heidi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:09:02 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:09:19 <heidi> #topic Updates
17:09:23 <heidi> So Dark_Rose, I'm not sure what you meant by you're going through slides?
17:09:56 <Dark_Rose> I found slides with Stoney that discuss GNU autotools. I am reading though them to get a better understanding of the makefiles.
17:10:05 <heidi> Ah, got it.
17:10:14 <Stoney> We got through about 1/3 of them yesterday
17:10:23 <heidi> #info Nikki is getting up to speed on GNU autotools
17:10:30 <Dark_Rose> They can be found by downloading the pdf from http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~adl/autotools.html
17:10:33 <Dark_Rose> #link http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~adl/autotools.html
17:10:37 <heidi> :-) Super
17:10:39 <heidi> Thanks.
17:10:42 <Stoney> heidi have you used them before?
17:10:45 <Dark_Rose> no problem :)
17:10:55 <heidi> Nope. Or I should say, "not that I know of".
17:10:57 <heidi> What are they?
17:11:13 <Stoney> they generate config files and makefiles
17:11:33 <heidi> Ah, got it.
17:11:37 <Stoney> so all the .in files are generated from .am or .ac files
17:11:53 <heidi> I knew that one fact, but didn't know that autotools did it.
17:12:22 <Stoney> apparently there are a whole bunch of tools in the autotools set... autoconf, automake, etc
17:12:29 <heidi> Ah, got it.
17:12:32 <Dark_Rose> I am pretty sure that a lot of files, especially in the highest level, come from the autotools are not mousetrap specific
17:13:04 <Dark_Rose> Stoney and I think that they are GNU/Gnome standards imposed on the projects for a blanket way of programing
17:13:08 <heidi> Ah, good. And that would be helpful to know.
17:13:26 <Stoney> but we aren't sure yet if that is true
17:13:32 <heidi> That makes sense. For consistency across projects.
17:14:05 <Dark_Rose> I am going to go through the slides, but then I am going to reach to Gnome information to see what they are saying and if they point us to the same information we are on a good track.
17:14:43 <heidi> You're going to reach to "Gnome information"? I'm not sure I understand that.
17:14:58 <Stoney> what I find strange is that there isn't a config.ac file in mousetrap... there is a config.in though... but I thought it was supposed to be generated from the .ac
17:15:27 <Stoney> reach = search ?
17:15:34 <Stoney> or research?
17:15:39 <heidi> Ah, got it.
17:15:55 <Dark_Rose> I am going to go to their site and see if I can find out if autotools is something they have information on and what they are saying about it. If nothing comes up, then autotools is probably only used by the mousetrap team and not Gnome. and yes search/research
17:16:46 <heidi> OK, sure.
17:16:55 <heidi> And you might also take a peek at a few other projects.
17:17:02 <Dark_Rose> I plan on it
17:17:07 <heidi> For instance, I know that Epiphany is installed on some of the machines in the lab.
17:17:17 <Dark_Rose> oh ok
17:17:24 <heidi> Brian Bartholomew or Kyle Robitaille would be able to show you where.
17:17:39 <Dark_Rose> alright
17:17:52 <heidi> So that would give us another data point. We could also download a few other projects, but we might not need to go that far.
17:17:59 <Dark_Rose> alright sounds good
17:18:53 <Stoney> Is this something that Joanie could quickly answer?
17:19:00 <heidi> Stoney, do you have an update? I haven't done anything since Monday.
17:19:03 <heidi> Possibly.
17:19:06 * joanie scrolls back
17:19:24 <Stoney> Joanie, we are wondering if GNOME requires use of autotools
17:19:25 <joanie> (how far back?)
17:19:26 <Stoney> ?
17:19:29 <joanie> yay!
17:19:30 <joanie> yes
17:19:35 <Stoney> thanks!
17:19:37 <Stoney> that was easy
17:19:37 <joanie> you bet
17:19:40 <heidi> :-)
17:19:40 <joanie> thanks for the repeat
17:19:42 <Dark_Rose> awesome :)
17:19:53 <heidi> Joanie, did you get my message about the MouseTrap sprint?
17:20:00 <joanie> I did
17:20:03 <heidi> A week from today the WNE crew is going to hack all day.
17:20:04 <joanie> which campus?
17:20:07 <heidi> WNE
17:20:11 <joanie> cool
17:20:19 <joanie> I *may* be able to come, but I dunno yet
17:20:20 <heidi> I'm hoping that the Drexel and NCC folks will hack virtually as well.
17:20:27 <heidi> :-) YOu are always very welcome!
17:20:29 <heidi> Sure, let us know.
17:20:42 <joanie> being there virtually is almost a guarantee
17:20:46 <heidi> Have you seen our new lab? I don't know if you've been down since we moved to the new building?
17:20:50 <heidi> Great!
17:20:55 <joanie> and if it's during the "week off" I plan to take, I can definitely come
17:21:10 <joanie> I need a week to sleep, vegetate and work on fun stuff
17:21:16 <joanie> and this constitutes fun
17:21:26 <joanie> it's a break for MustDos i need
17:21:28 <heidi> Ah, cool!
17:21:29 <joanie> but I'm rambling
17:21:38 * heidi wonders at hacking on one's week off :-)
17:21:41 <joanie> so I'll let you resume.
17:21:48 <heidi> :-)
17:21:50 <joanie> heidi: at my former job I took vacation to hack
17:21:58 <joanie> not enough hours in the day
17:22:10 <heidi> I get it. :-) But I'm thinking that many non-coding folks wouldn't.
17:22:11 <heidi> Right.
17:22:13 <heidi> :-)
17:22:13 <joanie> anyhoo, /me waves and says "ping me if you need me"
17:22:15 <joanie> :)
17:22:23 <Stoney> #info GNOME projects are required to use autotool
17:22:31 <heidi> Tbye
17:22:35 <heidi> Thanks Stoney
17:22:36 <joanie> Stoney: well....
17:22:37 <Stoney> thanks !
17:22:45 <joanie> Most GNOME projects use autotool
17:22:46 <Stoney> ?
17:22:56 <Stoney> I see... it's a good idea
17:22:58 <joanie> I don't think we have a "requirement" that thou shalt use autotool
17:23:09 <joanie> but folks do, so you probably should too
17:23:21 <Stoney> got it
17:23:23 <Dark_Rose> I love the wording of that joanie, lol
17:23:24 <joanie> k
17:23:30 <heidi> Sounds like a "best practice"
17:23:35 <joanie> Dark_Rose: I'm old and political ;)
17:23:44 <heidi> :-) You're mature and wise!
17:23:45 * joanie waves for realz this time
17:23:48 <heidi> bye
17:23:55 <Dark_Rose> bye!
17:23:57 <Stoney> #info GNOME projects typically use autotool... it's a best practice
17:25:14 <heidi> :-)
17:25:22 <Stoney> Now the fun part will be trying to understand how autotools is being used in mousetrap
17:25:41 <heidi> So my report is that I haven't done anything since we met Monday.
17:25:49 <Stoney> I already found a few @var@ placeholders in some files
17:26:01 <heidi> I haven't had a chance to reverse engineer the design on the ocvfw.
17:26:20 <Dark_Rose> I haven't done much either so no worries lol
17:26:35 <Stoney> actually, you have Dark_Rose
17:26:43 <heidi> Right!
17:26:51 <Stoney> I think you're a long way towards understanding the makefile stuff
17:26:57 <Stoney> it is more than makefiles though
17:27:08 <Dark_Rose> I just meant hours wise lol, I am picking back up on reading stuff today before I go home for the weekend :)
17:27:34 <Stoney> I won't have time to look at it again until next week.
17:27:44 <heidi> OK, I might get to it tomorrow.
17:27:47 <heidi> Need more time!!!
17:27:49 <heidi> :-)
17:28:00 <Stoney> Need to clone myself
17:28:21 <Dark_Rose> lol, I might get a chance this weekend to look a little more, but my essay and two assignments for next week plus family time comes first :)
17:29:18 <Stoney> So next Friday is the sprint... what do we need to do to be ready for it?
17:29:23 <Stoney> can one be ready for a sprint?
17:30:01 <heidi> Umm, we do need to do a bit of prep.
17:30:11 <heidi> Would be good to get the current design outlined by then.
17:30:32 <heidi> One task we could do is review the design at the beginning.
17:30:52 <heidi> We could identify anything that we think needs to be changed.
17:30:53 <heidi> We then need the latest update from Amber.
17:31:00 <Dark_Rose> I can try to get the understanding of makefiles and autotools done by then unless I hit a bump.
17:31:27 <heidi> Ah, that would be good.
17:31:51 <Stoney> so Amber's copy will be our starting point?
17:32:23 <Dark_Rose> I'm guessing yes since a lot will already be fixed?
17:32:47 <heidi> As long as it is consistent with the design and any changes we might decide are needed.
17:33:40 <Stoney> OK, so, pull a design together... and beef up on autotools
17:33:42 <Dark_Rose> We can always look back at the original if we need to.
17:33:52 <Stoney> Get a copy of ambers stuff
17:34:02 <heidi> Yes, right.
17:34:22 <heidi> I've started a page for logistics and plan: http://foss2serve.org/index.php/MouseTrap_Sprint
17:34:39 <heidi> #info Sprint on April 5 at WNE and virtually, 9:00-5:00
17:34:41 <heidi> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/MouseTrap_Sprint
17:35:21 <Dark_Rose> Should I add info their about the autotools as a starting point? and it would be good to have it there for when I am not with you during the sprint.
17:35:47 * heidi is editing...
17:37:40 <heidi> Sure, why don't you add a "Resources" section at the end and add link(s) there.
17:37:43 <heidi> :-)
17:37:54 <Dark_Rose> alright :)
17:37:59 <Stoney> I stuffed it into the preparation
17:38:10 <Stoney> Feel free to move it
17:38:30 <heidi> Sure, :-)
17:38:46 <Stoney> so we have a plan
17:38:54 <Stoney> anything else?
17:38:59 <heidi> Yes. We should probably announce this on the MouseTrap list.
17:39:18 <heidi> We've been too quiet there and we need to be more vocal in case there are others on the list.
17:40:03 <Dark_Rose> good point
17:40:03 <heidi> #action Heidi send introduction and notification of sprint to MouseTrap list
17:40:50 <heidi> OK, I'll do so.
17:41:04 <heidi> #action Heidi post "redesign" enhancement on Bugzilla
17:41:27 * heidi thinks I should stop giving myself more things to do!!!
17:41:57 <Stoney> I would say give me something to do, but I'm behind in so many things at this point that I'm not sure I want to add more
17:43:19 <heidi> RIght, I understand.
17:43:37 <heidi> Anything else?
17:43:47 <Stoney> That's it for me
17:43:48 <heidi> Please feel free to keep adding to the sprint list.
17:43:52 <Stoney> Yup
17:44:03 <heidi> Dark_Rose? Anything else?
17:44:43 <heidi> OK, I'm going to end the meeting.
17:44:45 <heidi> #endmeeting