**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 17 09:29:25 2006

Aug 17 09:29:25 <pbor>	pingety ping
Aug 17 09:46:46 <pbor>	(it's about the soc mail paolo sent... he told me official soc ends Aug 21)
Aug 17 09:47:56 <pbor>	I'd like to speak frankly with you... which is youe point of view on this gsv soc thing?
Aug 17 09:48:26 <pbor>	[1] it still needs work, but you had some stuff preventing you to work on it
Aug 17 09:48:46 <pbor>	[2] you are blocked waiting feedback from paolo
Aug 17 09:49:32 <pbor>	[3] you gave up because you think gsv2 is crap that will never work and you will not use it in medit anyway
Aug 17 09:49:46 <pbor>	[4] None of the above
Aug 17 12:20:08 <muntyan>	hi there
Aug 17 12:20:12 <muntyan>	still here?
Aug 17 12:21:27 <pbor>	hey muntyan
Aug 17 12:21:29 <pbor>	yes
Aug 17 12:21:43 <muntyan>	so, serious talk, huh?
Aug 17 12:22:12 <pbor>	well, I'd like to have a clear understanding of how are things
Aug 17 12:23:06 <muntyan>	all right, so, [1] and [2]
Aug 17 12:23:14 <muntyan>	[1] before now, [2] now
Aug 17 12:23:24 <muntyan>	oops, vice versa
Aug 17 12:23:42 <muntyan>	first, about highlighting
Aug 17 12:24:28 <muntyan>	it basically works, as it worked in the beginning. i.e. it needs to be tested in something real. without that it's pointless to try to fix it up, things like responsiveness, for instance
Aug 17 12:24:36 <muntyan>	e.g. see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=348289
Aug 17 12:24:56 <muntyan>	about [3], no!
Aug 17 12:25:07 <muntyan>	i put too much blood into this to throw it away
Aug 17 12:25:13 <muntyan>	i actually like the regex thing
Aug 17 12:25:36 <muntyan>	i can't put it into medit because i need to get a release first
Aug 17 12:25:42 <muntyan>	now, about whole thing
Aug 17 12:25:56 <muntyan>	it pretty much ended up being a work on highlighting
Aug 17 12:25:58 <muntyan>	it sucks
Aug 17 12:26:12 <muntyan>	though i want to get printing too
Aug 17 12:26:33 <muntyan>	highlighting and printing are the most important things, which can actually be done in meantime
Aug 17 12:26:49 <pbor>	ok, awesome
Aug 17 12:27:13 <muntyan>	exactly that word, "awesome" ;)
Aug 17 12:27:24 <pbor>	I was actually scared of [3] becuase your commit pattern go like this
Aug 17 12:27:39 <pbor>	100 commits in non stop 48 hours
Aug 17 12:27:46 <pbor>	no commits in 15 days
Aug 17 12:27:47 <pbor>	:)
Aug 17 12:27:50 <muntyan>	yeah
Aug 17 12:28:11 <muntyan>	it was like, i did everything i could with test-widget
Aug 17 12:28:22 <muntyan>	there is no point in polishing things now
Aug 17 12:28:34 <pbor>	ok
Aug 17 12:28:44 <muntyan>	there is no point in rewriting sloppy parts of code (e.g. update_syntax) because it's not clear if it's really gonna stay as it is
Aug 17 12:29:01 <muntyan>	i'm basically stuck with this highlighting thing
Aug 17 12:29:07 <pbor>	and yes, I know it sucks that the project turned out to be redo hl, but...
Aug 17 12:29:19 <muntyan>	no feedback from outside, and i can't to use it here because of other things
Aug 17 12:29:30 <pbor>	ok
Aug 17 12:29:52 <pbor>	so we need to get paolo to provide proper feedback on the hl work
Aug 17 12:30:00 <muntyan>	absolutely
Aug 17 12:30:31 <pbor>	is the theming part done?
Aug 17 12:30:33 <muntyan>	off-topic: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347569
Aug 17 12:30:41 <muntyan>	http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347568
Aug 17 12:30:45 <muntyan>	http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347567
Aug 17 12:30:53 <muntyan>	theming part - yes and no
Aug 17 12:31:02 <muntyan>	it does work, i use kde styles with test-widget
Aug 17 12:31:17 <muntyan>	but there is about zero api since i have no idea what api is needed
Aug 17 12:31:24 <pbor>	ok
Aug 17 12:32:04 <muntyan>	http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340092 - this is related to highlighting
Aug 17 12:32:21 <muntyan>	i wanted to do some trickery about responsiveness, but it all went to this bug
Aug 17 12:32:27 <muntyan>	since *i* was doing it :)
Aug 17 12:32:28 <pbor>	what about givinga shot at adapting your undo stuff? that was one of the orthogonal parts of the possible gsv2 enanchements
Aug 17 12:32:44 <muntyan>	i am all for this, of course
Aug 17 12:32:55 <muntyan>	but i need heavy feedback and heavy discussions
Aug 17 12:33:04 <muntyan>	my undo code uses lot of in-buffer stuff
Aug 17 12:33:06 <pbor>	about those printing bugs: I agree that it sucks.
Aug 17 12:33:19 <muntyan>	err, the buffer does lot of fancy stuff about undo
Aug 17 12:33:26 <muntyan>	like interactive-not-interactive
Aug 17 12:33:27 <pbor>	ok
Aug 17 12:33:33 <muntyan>	and i still didn't get it right
Aug 17 12:33:47 <muntyan>	the UndoManager thing itself is easy, i guess, but, you know :)
Aug 17 12:33:54 <pbor>	yeah
Aug 17 12:35:16 <pbor>	ok, if you feel like replying to paolo's mail with all your doubts/questions/bugzilla pointers etc I think it would help
Aug 17 12:35:47 <muntyan>	i don't feel like doing that :)
Aug 17 12:35:50 <muntyan>	but i guess i have to
Aug 17 12:35:55 <pbor>	yeah
Aug 17 12:36:06 <pbor>	otherwise it'll get stuck forever
Aug 17 12:36:32 <pbor>	and it will be great to take advantage of the fact that paolo is not so busy right now
Aug 17 12:37:09 <muntyan>	he's not?
Aug 17 12:38:05 <pbor>	he just came back from the holydays and according to his mail he said he wants to work on gnome stuff for some days
Aug 17 12:38:24 <pbor>	well s/gnome/gsv&gedit
Aug 17 12:39:20 <muntyan>	it's cool
Aug 17 12:42:45 <muntyan>	err, about printing
Aug 17 12:42:54 <muntyan>	those bugs, are they fine for gedit?
Aug 17 12:43:04 <pbor>	no, they suck
Aug 17 12:43:30 <pbor>	as it suck the whole preview business
Aug 17 12:43:43 <pbor>	and the fact that you can't specify line ranges
Aug 17 12:44:07 <pbor>	I haven't really looked into the details yet
Aug 17 12:44:26 <muntyan>	okay, so it's not of top priority for gtksourceview?
Aug 17 12:44:49 <muntyan>	i.e. with these bugs and preview business, gedit is not going to use gtk printing?
Aug 17 12:45:18 <pbor>	since it basically looked clear that as of now it wasn't going to cut it we knew that we couldn't get in gedit 2.16 I really haven't thought about it much...
Aug 17 12:45:35 <pbor>	well, I have no idea
Aug 17 12:45:47 <pbor>	sticking with gnomeprint is not an option either
Aug 17 12:45:49 <muntyan>	maybe you could add comment on those bugs though
Aug 17 12:46:08 <muntyan>	it'd increase probability of fix
Aug 17 12:46:19 <pbor>	I can comment
Aug 17 12:46:30 <muntyan>	"gedit can't use gtk printing because it sucks" is much stronger argument than "muntyan can't use it"
Aug 17 12:46:31 <pbor>	but I don't like "me too" comment
Aug 17 12:46:34 <muntyan>	:)
Aug 17 12:46:48 <pbor>	so I'll CC myself and add something where I have something to say
Aug 17 12:46:52 <muntyan>	well, "me too" is stupid, but
Aug 17 12:46:59 <muntyan>	they need to get to know printing sucks
Aug 17 12:47:17 <muntyan>	it's really stupid that there was such a rush before release, and then it stopped
Aug 17 12:47:26 <muntyan>	"because it's good enough" (?)
Aug 17 12:47:39 <pbor>	yes, but we already pointed it out i part on the gtk-devel thread
Aug 17 12:47:52 <muntyan>	not really
Aug 17 12:47:59 <muntyan>	you were talking about design, preview and stuff
Aug 17 12:48:11 <muntyan>	and since macosx does what gtk does, nobody cares ;)
Aug 17 12:48:20 <pbor>	yes, but it was clear that the whole printing stuff was rushed
Aug 17 12:48:22 <muntyan>	but bugs which are silly bugs should be fixed
Aug 17 12:48:44 <pbor>	yeah
Aug 17 12:48:53 <pbor>	I agree
Aug 17 12:49:05 <muntyan>	you will be forced to use gtk printing anyway, right?
Aug 17 12:49:13 <muntyan>	by god, or devil, or whoever
Aug 17 12:49:23 <pbor>	yes I guess :/
Aug 17 12:49:40 <pbor>	unless we want to maintain a separate printing stack ourselves
Aug 17 12:49:59 <muntyan>	what do gnomeprint guys thing? do they give up on the lib?
Aug 17 12:50:04 <muntyan>	are there gnomeprint guys at all?
Aug 17 12:50:13 <pbor>	no, not really
Aug 17 12:50:29 <pbor>	it's pretty much abandoned
Aug 17 12:50:50 <pbor>	last maintainer was jody of gnumeric fame
Aug 17 12:51:11 <pbor>	but now novell moved him to work on OO calc :/
Aug 17 12:51:37 <muntyan>	freaking evil corporations
Aug 17 12:51:44 <muntyan>	and the most evil is redhat
Aug 17 12:52:00 <muntyan>	well, i'll try to write a nice letter
Aug 17 12:52:09 <pbor>	ok, thanks
Aug 17 12:52:18 <muntyan>	you are welcome :)
Aug 17 12:52:40 <pbor>	bring up also the printing stuff in the mail
Aug 17 12:52:49 <pbor>	so we see what paolo thinks
Aug 17 12:53:08 <muntyan>	okay
Aug 17 12:53:16 <pbor>	I am not even sure it makes sense to have it in sourceview at all at this point
Aug 17 12:55:03 *	muntyan would love to move it to gtksourceview :)
Aug 17 12:55:24 <muntyan>	it would make sense only as part of general move to new gtk stuff
Aug 17 12:55:28 <muntyan>	i guess
Aug 17 12:55:41 <muntyan>	i.e. if gtksourceview is going to use printing eventually, then why not?
Aug 17 12:55:49 <muntyan>	i am doing printing anyway
Aug 17 12:56:01 <muntyan>	s/to use printing/to use gtk printing/
Aug 17 13:02:45 <pbor>	well, I'd prefer it to move to gtktextview :P
Aug 17 13:03:06 <pbor>	anyway yes, I think the plan is to have it in sourceview
Aug 17 13:03:52 <muntyan>	having it in gtk would be cool, indeed
Aug 17 13:04:03 <muntyan>	but i am not going to advocate it
Aug 17 13:04:10 <muntyan>	i have enough of undo :)
Aug 17 13:05:25 <pbor>	hehe