14:00 < afranke> OgMaciel, ooooh, *that* meeting. :)
14:00 <@OgMaciel> don't think anyone added new topics
14:00 <@OgMaciel> afranke: :)
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14:02 < andreasn> hello
14:02 <@OgMaciel> looks like it's going to be quiet around here today...
14:02 <@OgMaciel> howdy andreasn 
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14:13 <@OgMaciel> does anyone have any question? comment? feedback?
14:15 < vuntz> the topics on the wiki page are old topics?
14:15 <@OgMaciel> yup
14:16 < vuntz> okay, so I have questions about other stuff :-)
14:16 <@OgMaciel> cool
14:16  * OgMaciel is all ears
14:17 < vuntz> did we reach out to some specific local groups to push them to organize GUADEC 2012?
14:17 <@OgMaciel> not that I know off... yippi_ ?
14:19 < vuntz> while waiting for yippi_, I'll ask other questions :-)
14:19 <@OgMaciel> gopher :)
14:19 < vuntz> have we started working on a timeline for the next board elections?
14:19 < vuntz> since I guess the nomination period should open soon
14:19 <@OgMaciel> vuntz: I asked the same thing on membership list and was told to expect something starting in may
14:20 < vuntz> cool
14:20 < vuntz> it might make sense to start making noise about it
14:21 < vuntz> and we should all ping people who we believe would be good candidates
14:21 < vuntz> sometimes, they need some time to be convinced :-)
14:21 <@OgMaciel> vuntz: I shall let the Board know
14:23 < vuntz> ah, something else: did we give up on the FoG campaign?
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14:23 <@OgMaciel> vuntz: give up?
14:25 < vuntz> OgMaciel: well, with the new website, we removed the ruler for the campaign
14:25 < vuntz> so I'm just wondering if the plan is to put it back and still try to reach 400 subscriptions, or if the plan changed
14:26 <@OgMaciel> vuntz: I had asked a while back on marketing about running campaigns
14:26 <@OgMaciel> more specifically, about running "theme" campaigns, but we haven't made much progress on that front
14:26 <@OgMaciel> vuntz: I could at least get the banner back on
14:27 < andreasn> oh, yes, the banner
14:27 < andreasn> it seemed to go very slow
14:27 < andreasn> perhaps we should put a time limit on it and say "nope, didn't reach 400 people"
14:28 < andreasn> after a while
14:28 <@OgMaciel> andreasn: would you be the best person to put it back?
14:28 < andreasn> OgMaciel, yes, me or vdepizzol
14:28 < vuntz> I'd say we reached the time limit, in that case
14:28 < vuntz> it's been something like 4 months?
14:28 <@OgMaciel> andreasn: mind taking an action?
14:28 <@OgMaciel> vuntz: since November 2011 actually
14:28 < andreasn> if we want to put it back that is
14:28 < zana> hmmm... www.gnome.org/friends isn't resolving for me; did the url change?
14:29 <@OgMaciel> vuntz: let me ask the marketing team then
14:29 <@OgMaciel> what to do
14:29 < andreasn> what campaign do we want to run next?
14:29 < vuntz> zana: it redirects to http://www-old.gnome.org/friends/ here
14:29 < vuntz> ah
14:29 < vuntz> but you need the trailing slash
14:29  * vuntz files a bug
14:29 < andreasn> ooh
14:30 < zana> vuntz: oh!  thanks
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14:31 <@OgMaciel> Og will email marketing list to ask if we should end current FoG campaign and what should be run next
14:31 < vuntz> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=648307
14:32 < BLUG_Fred> i actually emailed the marketing list about this specific issue like less than a week ago I think
14:32 <@OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: but got no replies?
14:33 < BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: got a replies saying the progress bar should be restyled to match the new site
14:34 < BLUG_Fred> i think it's better to have it as long as we have no other plan, at least we get 1 new subscription per day
14:34 < BLUG_Fred> which is better than none
14:34 < BLUG_Fred> i would even go has far (and I know I am extreme) as putting it back the way it is until someone restyles it
14:35 < BLUG_Fred> it might generate some real motivation to do it ;-)
14:35 < zana> but does it make sense to have no break between campaigns?
14:35 <@OgMaciel> zana: great question
14:36 < zana> right now we may generate donations just from having a new release
14:36 < vuntz> we need a break between campaigns, indeed. A few months, at least
14:36 < BLUG_Fred> well considering how slow we can be, we could put it back up, think about a campaign schedule and then act 
14:36 < BLUG_Fred> act could mean 'break + new campaign'
14:37 < BLUG_Fred> or we could consider that the current subscription is 'the break'
14:37 < pockeylam> I think we should promote the subscription program whenever there is no other campaign, no? 
14:37 < BLUG_Fred> zana: yes i think we should be getting more traffic now, and this is when we don't have the progress bar
14:37 <@OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: right
14:38 < BLUG_Fred> zana: but we might have missed the peak already
14:38 < vuntz> we missed it, yes
14:40 < BLUG_Fred> so what do you guys think we should do now?
14:40 < BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: what was supposed to be the next campaign?
14:40 < BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: sysadmin job ?
14:40 <@OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: we have never agreed on a new one
14:40 < BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: what are the options?
14:41 <@OgMaciel> I will email the marketing list with all of these questions
14:41 < BLUG_Fred> maybe we can just decide now and inform marketing?
14:41 <@OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: last I heard were new server machines and a11n
14:41 < BLUG_Fred> marketing is represented here in some ways
14:41 <@OgMaciel> I believe marketing is where this decision is made
14:41 < BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: either way we need to style the bar...
14:41 < aday> i'd be interested in hearing a bit about the history of our campaigns
14:42 < BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: see, marketing is here ;-)
14:42 < aday> sorry, just arrived! :)
14:42 < BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: considering there was no answers and that marketing is partly represented we could come up with a direction to suggest at least
14:42 <@OgMaciel> aday: historically we've run 2 campaigns/year
14:42 < BLUG_Fred> andreasn: where can we get the old progress bar to make attempts at styling?
14:43 < vuntz> I don't think marketing can decide without knowing where money is needed
14:43 <@OgMaciel> vuntz: agreed
14:43 < aday> yep
14:43 <@OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: checkout gnomeweb-wml
14:43 < BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: thanks
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14:43 < yippi_> when are we planning to end the current FoG Campaign?
14:43 < yippi_> isn't it already over, or did we extend the timeframe?
14:44 <@OgMaciel> yippi_: this is one of the questions asked
14:44 <@OgMaciel> no official decision has been made
14:44 < vuntz> I think we should just end it now
14:44 <@OgMaciel> so we're still running the one from last Nov
14:44 < vuntz> november-april is a long time for a campaign
14:44 < yippi_> that's what Napolean said
14:44 < zana> OgMaciel: I believe the original idea was to run two campaigns a year, one in June and one in December (offset from the release cycle and capitalizing on end of year for the US)
14:44 < aday> do we have an idea of which campaigns have been successful and why?
14:44 <@OgMaciel> zana: coorect
14:45 < zana> OgMaciel: I also believe that we have had exactly two campaigns
14:45 < BLUG_Fred> vuntz: it was available only starting in January
14:45 < vuntz> aday: sysadmin one was successful, because everybody understood we needed to hire someone :-)
14:45 <@OgMaciel> right now I'm not sure what we want to make our priority in terms of where the money should go
14:45 < vuntz> BLUG_Fred: maybe. But I was told it started in november :-)
14:45 < andreasn> so if we start another one this June, we could plan ahead to it now
14:46 <@OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: started in nov for sure
14:46 < BLUG_Fred> vuntz: in secret...  ;-)
14:46 < BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: it was visible on gnome.org in January though
14:46 < aday> i'm also wondering why the current campaign hasn't been successful - don't want to repeat that. is it that it was too long and is a repetition of an ongoing effort?
14:46 < BLUG_Fred> so having a campaign with no one seeing it shouldn't really count, should it?
14:46 <@OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: you are correct... just remembered that it took a while to get banner online
14:47 < vuntz> BLUG_Fred: I'd argue that 3 months is a max for a campaign anyway ;-)
14:47 < aday> BLUG_Fred: right. if we have a campaign we need to make a noise about it
14:47 < andreasn> vuntz, sounds like a good limit
14:47 < aday> agreed
14:47 < BLUG_Fred> aday: well obviously we had issues with the current campaign
14:48 < pockeylam> aday, i think the campaign was not widely promoted, we should have blogged more about it in other communities except planet gnome or gnome.org 
14:48 < andreasn> vuntz, so if we launch one in late June, would that still hit the sept release?
14:48 < pockeylam> aday, maybe talked more to press, do some advertising in google and so on
14:48 < vuntz> andreasn: probably no, if we use a 3-months limit
14:48 < aday> pockeylam: yes, totally agree
14:49 < pockeylam> aday, since the campaign targets more to gnome users (not gnome contributors) 
14:49 < andreasn> vuntz, I think it would be good to somewhat hit the releases, as that's when we get more traffic and noise
14:49 < zana> aday: at the end of the day, reaching a set number of subscribers is not as tangible as getting a new sysadmin.
14:49 < aday> zana: yes, 400 (or whatever) subscribers is a little arbitrary
14:50 < BLUG_Fred> which is why i feel it's a like a "between campaigns" campaign
14:50 < pockeylam> aday, yeah, we couldn't have associate this target number or an amount to something more tangible e.g. can support 5 hackfests
14:50 < aday> good idea
14:51 < pockeylam> i also think the subscription campaign is more for generic , it will be on whenever we have no other theme or target :)
14:51 < andreasn> BLUG_Fred, that means we'll be asking people for money all the time though
14:51 < pockeylam> andreasn, it's normal for ngo to ask for donation all year round, no? :)
14:52 < BLUG_Fred> andreasn: yes?
14:52 < vuntz> it is normal, but not with a ruler to track where we stand
14:52 < BLUG_Fred> andreasn: we should I think... 
14:52 <@OgMaciel> so ruler == official campaign?
14:52 < andreasn> yeah, we kind of already are with the FoG page, I mean that we might not want to always have a banner on top of all gnome.org always
14:52 < aday> so what do we need? a life time supply of ice cream for vuntz?
14:52 < BLUG_Fred> vuntz: right.. we should probably not have any objective
14:52 < pockeylam> vuntz, right, we can probably think of another way to promote it 
14:52 < aday> that'd be an awesome campaign
14:53 < pockeylam> vuntz, so we can get to 1000 one day ;-) 
14:53 < andreasn> but we should always have something smaller on the gnome.org frontpage probably
14:53 < BLUG_Fred> andreasn: the page is well hidden
14:53 < zana> right now in order there is no direct link to donate money from the top gnome.org page
14:53 < yippi_> vuntz, any idea when we might have the foundation website updated with the new brand licensing forms?
14:53 < BLUG_Fred> andreasn: yes.. like "donate now!"
14:53 < BLUG_Fred> :D
14:53 < vuntz> aday: I'm happy with that goal
14:53 < vuntz> yippi_: ah, right, you pinged me on the bug. I suck here. Hmm, let me think
14:53 <@OgMaciel> yippi_: btw, earlier vuntz asked something that you may be able to answer: "have we reached out to some specific local groups to push them  to organize GUADEC 2012?"
14:53 < zana> aday: that'd be a lot of money....
14:53 < andreasn> BLUG_Fred, let me fix that for gnome.org
14:54 < aday> i'll add the donate item to the web site goals - http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NextSteps
14:54 < BLUG_Fred> andreasn: great.. that'll be a good replacement
14:54 < vuntz> yippi_: not today (have to do lots of opensuse stuff), but tomorrow during a break, I can do that
14:55 < vuntz> yippi_: (thanks for pinging, btw)
14:56 < BLUG_Fred> so next campaign choices are either hardware or 5 hackfests?
14:57 <@OgMaciel> I'd vote for hackfest as I believe (andreasn can help me here?) the Foundation has handled hardware issue
14:58 < vuntz> what about something like "Let's have the community sponsor the Boston Summit"?
14:58 < yippi_> thanks vuntz!
14:58 <@OgMaciel> niiice
14:58 < andreasn> OgMaciel, yes, I think that's taken care of. yippi_?
14:58 < aday> what about other kinds of staffing?
14:58 <@OgMaciel> aday: such as?
14:58 < aday> web development, perhaps?
14:59 < yippi_> we really need an event planner or an event planning committee to make sure that The GNOME Foundation remembers to do things like talk to MIT on time to make arrangements for rooms.
14:59 < aday> or specific sysadmin tasks... do we want to try and improve bugzilla somehow, for instance?
15:00 < BLUG_Fred> yippi_: can't we had that into j5 calendar as a reminder?
15:00 < aday> or improve the wiki?
15:00 < aday> i'm sure there are plenty of things people would like if we asked around
15:00 < yippi_> No, we have not yet reached out to any particular local groups for GUADEC 2012.
15:00 < yippi_> One reason for the long 2-month deadline.
15:01 < yippi_> Although Ryan seemed very excited to submit Montreal (or "Paris West") as a possible GUADEC location.
15:01 < yippi_> Isn't the world going to end in 2012 anyway?
15:01 < yippi_> I remember vuntz saying he'd prefer a location in Italy, one with nice ice cream I think.
15:01 < BLUG_Fred> any idea of how much we need to raise for the Boston Summit?
15:01 < aday> lapo said there is some italian interest only yesterday
15:02 < yippi_> that would be great, GUADEC has never been in Italy
15:02 < yippi_> seems a good location
15:02 < andreasn> aday, so he could actually come? Did he come to Prague you think? No :)
15:02 < aday> andreasn: he didn't show?! you're kidding me!
15:02 < vuntz> andreasn: ahahah
15:02 < yippi_> BLUG_Fred, raising at least $5,000-$10,000 USD helps to ensure some basic nicities like coffee breaks, a party, and some travel
15:03 < vuntz> andreasn: but he was there, since jimmac came, I assume ;-)
15:03 < yippi_> though i suppose we could do more travel if we had more funding
15:03 < andreasn> aday, vuntz, my hopes were up pretty high
15:03 < vuntz> andreasn: (we all know they're really just one person)
15:04 < aday> are the hackfests something we wouldn't be able to do without the campaign?
15:05 <@OgMaciel> I'd say that we could get *more* hackfests
15:05 < aday> here's an idea - how much would it cost to implement a gnome gitorious instance?
15:06 < BLUG_Fred> yippi_: last year was quite busy, I think we had somewhere around 70 people showing up. How many people did the foundation sponsor? 
15:06 < aday> OgMaciel: you think there's the demand there?
15:06 < yippi_> i think 1 person
15:06 < yippi_> historically most people who travel to Boston Summit are paid by their companies
15:06 < yippi_> any many of them are local
15:07 <@OgMaciel> aday: for a gitorious instance?
15:07 < aday> OgMaciel: sorry, more more hackfests
15:08 < BLUG_Fred> yippi_: wasnt Joey sponsorered? I got half of my travel paid which was great the way it happened.
15:08 < BLUG_Fred> yippi_: but either way it's really not much then.
15:08 < aday> OgMaciel: are we in the situation where there are more people asking to have hackfests than the foundation can support?
15:09 < BLUG_Fred> yippi_: and there was a few sponsors for the parties and breakfasts/coffees 
15:09 < BLUG_Fred> s/was/were
15:09 < zana> BLUG_Fred: historically, Boston summit travel wasn't sponsored at all, but travel for people attending hackfests around the summit sometimes were
15:10 < zana> BLUG_Fred: that started to change these last couple of years, but it isn't at the level of other hackfests
15:11 <@OgMaciel> aday: I don't think we get asked for  a lot of hackfests, at least not since I've joined the Board
15:12 < aday> right
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15:13 < aday> what do people think about the gitorious idea?
15:13 -!- aruiz [~aruiz@93.89.132.134] has joined #foundation
15:14 < aruiz> hi there
15:14 < aday> aruiz: hey :)
15:14 < afranke> OgMaciel, is there a place where we can see reports of the work done by the sysadmin we hired?
15:14 < BLUG_Fred> so a targeted FoG for Boston Summit would be nice. I don't understand what is the gitorious thing (sorry for my last of knowledge in the matter)
15:14 < andreasn> aday, could be neat. What would be the main motivation?
15:15 < yippi_> right, it was just a few people.  Right, that's how fund raising has been done in the past.
15:15 <@OgMaciel> afranke: he's been blogging about it
15:15 < yippi_> for Boston Summit.  Though we could do more if we raised more money
15:15 < aday> andreasn: it's something i've been talking about with aruiz
15:15 <@OgMaciel> afranke: so he's blog or bugzilla I guess
15:15 < andreasn> afranke, http://blogs.gnome.org/sysadmin/
15:15 < aruiz> aday, andreasn the main motivation is to enhance the code review process
15:16 <@OgMaciel> his blog
15:16 < aruiz> andreasn, posting a patch in bugzilla has two problems at the moment:
15:16 < aruiz> a) It takes some manual work to create the diff file and upload it
15:17 < aruiz> b) it's harder to have an overview of what the changes are, plus you don't have access to the history of the changes in that patch
15:17 < aruiz> gitorious has merge requests for this
15:17 < aruiz> and they are a really nice way to do code reviewing by maintainers or peers
15:18 < aruiz> andreasn, the other issue is that we have a lot of fragmentation for the experiments people have around
15:18 < aruiz> in github/gitorious
15:18 < BLUG_Fred> aday: so your idea is to pay someone to install gitorious on the gnome infrastructure?
15:18 < aruiz> and that's about it
15:18 < aday> BLUG_Fred: yes
15:18 < aruiz> BLUG_Fred, it's not just installing it, you need some development work needed
15:18 < aday> oh, no
15:18 < aruiz> to integrate bug id's with merge requests
15:19 < aruiz> it shouldn't be too much work
15:19 < aruiz> though it's not a blocker
15:19 < aday> BLUG_Fred: aruiz has been telling me how this would be a big improvement for our infrastructure, so it seems like a good candidate for a campaign
15:19 < aday> BLUG_Fred: we'd need to see what the community thinks of the idea, obviously
15:20 < aruiz> aday, I've talked to bkor
15:20 < BLUG_Fred> how much work is it, don't we have people in our community able to do that 'in their spare time'?
15:20 < vuntz> aday: people would love it, but this needs planning with the sysadmin team
15:20 < BLUG_Fred> i'm not a developer so I really have no idea of the needs/benefits
15:21 < aday> aruiz: what did he say?
15:21 < aruiz> setting it up depends pretty much on the idiosyncrasy of our current git infrastructure
15:21 < aruiz> aday, he said he's fine with setting up a gitorious for personal projects at the beginning, but a full move to gitorious for all the repos would take more work
15:22 < aruiz> aday, it's mostly a human resources problem this one really
15:22 < aruiz> aday, I don't think anybody is against the idea as long as we have the resources to set it up and maintain it
15:23 < aruiz> the tricky bit is making sure everything keeps working (damned lies, jhbuild, whatnot)
15:23 < aday> ok