15:07:21 #startmeeting 15:07:21 Meeting started Thu Dec 15 15:07:21 2011 UTC. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:07:21 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 15:07:31 * clown what about Canuks? 15:07:37 #topic Release Team Meeting Update and Pings 15:07:49 #info release-team had a meeting this Monday 15:08:05 #info one of the things they requested is an update of the feature proposals 15:08:24 #info in summary, update this page: https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree/Features 15:08:58 so clown I0m looking to you ;) 15:09:00 #info Joanie has been busy with Orca + WebKitGtk. But she hopes to resume working on Dots next week. 15:09:06 joanie, you could do the same 15:09:18 #info Joanie has already done most of the introspection work in her sandbox. 15:09:22 what do I need to update, specifically, API? 15:09:30 I guess that an update is also saying the status at this week 15:09:46 Zoom Options Dialog (Universal Access) 15:09:47 the "current status" sections? 15:09:47 things still discussing 15:09:52 yes 15:10:02 things still discussing, avoiding circles ;) 15:10:16 I saw your last comments on that bug 15:10:18 #action Joanie will update the status page for the Features at the beginning/middle of next week. 15:10:29 it would be good, imho, on that current status a date 15:10:29 but I was not asked so details 15:10:41 clown, Focus-caret tracking in GNOME Shell 15:10:45 mclasen asked on the bug if the work was started or not 15:10:54 so I guess that ths is also something to write down on the wiki 15:11:02 #action Joseph will update the status of Zoom Options dialog, Focus-caret tracking, and Brightness and Contrast Functionality. 15:11:24 yes, mclasen has posted to all the relevant bugzillas asking, "what's the status"? 15:12:16 and thats all 15:12:29 as Dasher thing was not approved as feature but as a app on moduleset 15:12:32 there's not much different. most of the work that I have done has been on the zoom options dialog. A little research in the brightness/contrast. Nothing in terms of focus tracking. 15:12:38 I think that all people were pinged 15:13:11 clown, ok, so just put that on the wiki 15:13:42 also, wtih resepct to focus tracking, technically, I'm waiing on a grant approval. Should that go in the wiki too? 15:13:49 "waiting". 15:13:59 clown: I think so. 15:14:08 cool. 15:14:25 clown, a fog grant approval or something on your daily work? 15:14:35 FoG, API. 15:15:14 technically, my supervisor doesn't want me working on this without funding. (that doesn't mean I won't do it…) 15:16:05 is your supervisor Jutta (?sp) 15:16:11 ultimately, yes. 15:16:40 we are trying to get aegis europe to approve of the work. 15:17:04 that way, we can justify the work under the current aegis grant I am working on. 15:17:20 but, having FoG come thru would make things much simpler. 15:17:48 clown, but longer 15:18:00 I mean that we needed to change the idea of proposing projects and then asking 15:18:11 a fog 15:18:14 to make a fog more general and then define projects 15:18:35 and this is process is becoming more slow that ideally 15:19:06 * clown notes that aegis europe moves at glacial speeds. 15:19:15 anyway, I think that this is somewhat off-topic right now 15:19:34 :P 15:19:35 however, I'm pretty sure Peter Korn approves of the work, and that might speed things up. 15:19:40 so I will just move on 15:19:44 sure. 15:19:49 clown, ok thanks 15:20:01 speed things up seems good 15:20:14 #topic FOSDEM 15:20:42 #info FOSDEM is coming 15:20:53 #info last year we had a specific a11y room 15:21:05 #info probably this year we will not have something like that 15:21:20 #info but it would be good to have some kind of accessibility talks, 15:21:33 #info in other rooms, like GNOME and so on 15:22:00 #info API is checking if he can go or no 15:22:41 #info lighning talks can be also an option 15:23:06 well, in fact there is no GNOME room, but a crossdesktop one 15:23:08 but this is the same 15:23:13 questions, doubts? 15:23:22 #info Joanie is thinking she will likely not go as she thinks she'll be attending an event prior to the hackfest, and being away from home for a month is a bit much in her opinion. 15:23:45 I forgot something 15:24:01 #info from cross-desktop info : "The deadline for submissions is December 20th 2011" 15:24:13 so any interested need to think on something quick 15:24:52 questions, doubts? 15:24:59 date for FOSDEM itself? 15:25:43 http://archive.fosdem.org/2011/ 15:25:54 looks like Feb 4-5, 2012. 15:25:54 #info FOSDEM will be from 4-5 February 15:26:08 clown, we are talking about fosdem 2012 :P 15:26:22 I'm not 15:26:24 :P 15:26:39 ? I wrote Feb 4-5 *2012*? 15:26:44 the url 15:27:24 yes, weill "http://archive.fosdem.org/2012/", gives a 404 ;-P 15:27:44 #info http://fosdem.org/2012/ (for the record) 15:29:14 well, no questions 15:29:16 so lets move 15:29:26 #topic Hackfest Update 15:29:40 #info still not publicly announced but the dates and places are still the planned 15:29:52 #info the plan is create a general agenda and make the announcement 15:30:22 #info as Ryan Lortie is not coming, Benjamin Otte contacted another person to be the "DBUS expert" at the hackfest 15:30:33 #info announcement will be done soon 15:31:10 #info I also reported foundation about the planned hackfest, as Brian Cameron was asking for updates from teams 15:31:24 #info also reported that we discarded Brno 15:31:56 so, questions dobuts? 15:31:58 doubts? 15:33:52 donuts? 15:34:05 fear, uncertainty? 15:34:34 well, it seems that nobody has any doubts 15:34:55 so no problem if I make questions at the end of the meeting, right? 15:34:59 moving on 15:35:10 #topic Marketing and Fundraising 15:35:20 juanjo marin sent us a email 15:35:31 * clown looks. 15:35:34 saying that today he will not be here 15:35:44 clown, a private :P 15:35:52 * clown stops looking. 15:35:57 but in summary: 15:36:23 #info Karen sent a mail to gnome-marketing about FoG 15:37:02 #info the summary of that FoG is "Help to make 2012 the Year of Accessibility at GNOME" 15:37:33 #info jjmarin is also working on a testimonials page 15:38:09 well, instead of "summary" it is the "slogan" of that FoG, but I guess that you got the idea 15:38:14 questions, doubts? 15:41:09 not from me. 15:42:27 well, it seems that nobody has questions 15:42:35 I guess that this is because we are not too many people today 15:42:35 so 15:42:42 #topic miscellaneous time 15:42:53 someone has something to add not included on the agenda? 15:43:05 yes, seeking advice. 15:43:20 any glade experts among us? Or, where do I find them? 15:43:36 to make it concrete, here is a picture: 15:43:38 #info Seems that Ubuntu has decided to ship a custom blend of GNOME 3.4 and GNOME 3.2. We have been warned. 15:43:46 * joanie listens to clown 15:43:49 http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=203048 15:44:07 the screen shot on the right is my dialog executing. 15:44:25 the picture on the left is Allen Day's better layout, but done using GIMP. 15:44:48 how are you positioning your widgets? 15:44:52 the task is to make the one on the left look more like the one on the right in terms of spacing, padding, etc. 15:45:31 not sure how to answer that. The largets container is a GtkBox (vertical). 15:45:36 "largest" 15:45:50 are you packing the widgets in the GtkBox directly? 15:45:56 or are you using GtkAlignment's? 15:46:02 some. 15:46:06 you should be using GtkAlignments I think 15:46:21 and can just adjust the alignment properties to get the spacing and padding you need 15:46:23 the box has three GtkFrames, one for each major heading. 15:46:24 (in theory) 15:46:56 http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkAlignment.html 15:47:02 the sliders/color on the bottom are a GtkGrid within a GtkAlignement. 15:47:19 I'll read that! Thanks. 15:47:46 were it me I'd put everything in alignments and keep tweaking values until they matched the pretty picture ;) 15:47:50 hopefully those properties can be adjusted in glade. 15:47:52 fwiw I think yours is fine 15:47:59 clown: I think they can 15:48:11 but worst case you can hand-edit the xml 15:48:25 but I'm almost positive you can do it within glade itself 15:49:01 been there, done that, but it's not always obvious which spacing, padding, alignment, whatever is the one that is most relevant. 15:49:14 * API thinks that joseph one is fine, should be approved and committed, and the other stuff should be just future improvements/refinements ... just my humble opinion 15:49:25 +1 to API's opinion 15:49:32 * clown thinks that API should go to the bug and say that. 15:49:45 * clown also vote for the radio button version. 15:49:58 radio button version: http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/aegis/GS-Mag/ZoomOptionsRadiosV2.png 15:50:02 probably doing that will just add noise there 15:50:02 that accessibility options get blocked based on what looks pretty is just ludicrous in my opinion. 15:50:17 mostly taking into account how near are to be accepted 15:50:38 and, it's holding up my working on brightness/contrast and focus-tracking. 15:51:05 clown: that comment might be worth making in the response to matthias' question re status of focus-tracking 15:51:08 ;) 15:51:18 or not. I could be a bad influence. ;) 15:51:28 well, I was going to say something more general like "I have other tasks to complete first". 15:52:02 * clown notes that other tasks include activities outside of gnome work. 15:53:09 clown: getting back to your original question. Give the GtkAlignment stuff a go and if you simply cannot make it happen/match, then ping me 15:53:24 I am not an expert, but I can usually bend GtkAlignments to my will. ;) 15:53:41 joanie, cool. it's pretty much the task for the day, so maybe we'll talk later. 15:53:46 sure thing! 15:53:54 thanks a bunch! 15:54:32 * clown realizes we are in the same time zone. 15:54:34 so, joanie you were saying something about ubuntu 15:54:34 Is the hackfest definitively planned for January 18-22 now? Sorry--you probably answered that before I finally came in; just trying to figure out if I should go ahead and book a flight 15:54:54 * joanie defers to mgorse's question first 15:54:55 mgorse, yes, current plan is that 15:55:24 the only stuff remaining is public announcement 15:55:35 we will do that as soon as we have a initial agenda 15:55:40 do we know for sure about travel committee? 15:56:24 or should we ping them before people start buying tickets? 15:58:02 joanie, good question 15:58:11 I have just sent a mail to shaun and german 15:58:37 mgorse, so for the moment, although those are the dates, lets wait for travel committee folks answer 16:01:59 so, it is 16:00 UTC now, so 16:02:08 a last question or doubt? 16:02:30 nope 16:02:31 what does the ubuntu issue mean? 16:02:44 the ubuntu issue is merely a heads-up 16:02:45 what is the downside of a blend of 3.2 and 3.4? 16:02:55 other than things will be flakey :-) 16:03:07 it means users of ubuntu next gnome 3 are going to start reporting things not working as expected 16:03:21 ok 16:03:23 and if we are not using ubuntu anywhere, we will have no clue what they are talking about 16:03:36 so I last night and today have set up a new machine with Ubuntu next 16:03:59 It makes me wonder which components they'll upgrade. Ie, will AT-SPI 2.4 packages be used? 16:04:01 if you are a person/developer who might be getting "doesn't work in Ubuntu" reports like I am.... 16:04:09 mgorse: damned if I know 16:04:17 I should ask Luke 16:04:17 but it's worth pinging Luke 16:04:27 and apologies for my "potty mouth" 16:05:38 That sounds kind of scary, though. I guess they're trying not to introduce new bugs with GNOME 3.4, but they might introduce new bugs with things not interoperating 16:05:52 yeah 16:06:36 I'm expecting all sorts of bumps and bruises. In fact, they have already begun. 16:06:58 fallback mode uses compiz. compiz task switcher selected gives no a11y events. wheeeee. 16:07:37 when the true mix of 3.2 and 3.4 kicks in.... things will only get more amusing. 16:09:40 * joanie thinks the meeting is over, right? 16:09:52 yes, I think that it is a good moment 16:09:56 #endmeeting