14:37:31 <API> #startmeeting
14:37:31 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Sep  1 14:37:31 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:37:31 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:37:45 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
14:37:51 <API> jjmarin, ?
14:37:55 <jjmarin> hi
14:37:55 <API> something new here?
14:38:12 <jjmarin> well, bryen pass me the gnome_a11y twitter account
14:38:32 <jjmarin> so any suggestion
14:38:32 <joanie> yay!
14:38:39 <jjmarin> will be welcome
14:38:40 <jjmarin> :-)
14:39:22 <jjmarin> I'm going to ask the US event box master
14:39:47 <joanie> Well, any time there's something a11y and gnomey to announce, tweet it. You know how to use twitter properly, so I don't think you need suggestions. ;-)
14:39:54 <jjmarin> for storing the a11y banners and stand from Bryen
14:40:30 <jjmarin> and we need to start to define the goal
14:40:44 <jjmarin> for a FoG campaign
14:41:07 <jjmarin> So far, I think the candidate for that goal
14:41:24 <jjmarin> will be the Performance Evaluation and Improvement
14:41:53 <jjmarin> I was thinking about starting a wiki page for wrting
14:42:06 <jjmarin> the the a11y porpose
14:42:16 <jjmarin> not sure if I have to do
14:42:17 <jjmarin> in
14:42:23 <jjmarin> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing
14:42:24 <API> jjmarin, joanie has a draft and in theory I was reviewing it
14:42:39 <jjmarin> OK
14:42:45 <joanie> jjmarin: all a11y team stuff live in live.gnome.org/Accessibility
14:42:47 <API> jjmarin, hmm, probably it would be better to add those under our roadmap wiki
14:42:50 <jjmarin> anyway
14:43:02 <joanie> all a11y marketing stuff live in live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing
14:43:06 <API> after all it is just adding details to one of the entries that we already have on the wiki
14:43:23 <jjmarin> I don't know if there are other candidates
14:43:27 <joanie> as for editing the roadmap....
14:43:42 <jjmarin> from our roadmap
14:43:46 <joanie> I'd prefer we don't edit that until we have official roadmap changes
14:43:53 <joanie> in other words.....
14:44:06 <joanie> I propose that if you would like to start planning the FoG on the wiki
14:44:17 <joanie> you do so on live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing/FoG
14:44:23 <jjmarin> ok
14:44:25 <joanie> please
14:44:27 <joanie> and thank you
14:44:28 <joanie> :-)
14:45:06 <API> jjmarin, ok, could you try to summarize all these stuff in pretty #info?
14:45:10 <API> for minutes sake?
14:45:12 <jjmarin> but do you think we should evaluate more goals for a FoG campaign
14:45:57 <jjmarin> # Juanjo will start planning the a11y FoG campaign in live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing/FoG
14:46:20 <joanie> jjmarin: use #action
14:46:31 <joanie> for action items
14:46:32 <jjmarin> oh !!!
14:46:44 <joanie> and #info for things which go in the minutes (like the summary)
14:46:51 <joanie> :-)
14:46:56 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will start planning the a11y FoG campaign in live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing/FoG
14:47:51 <jjmarin> API, so you will review the performance text
14:47:54 <joanie> clown: If memory serves me, you'll have a proposal for jjmarin to include regarding gs-mag caret and focus tracking?
14:48:03 <jjmarin> yes
14:48:14 <clown> joanie, yes.
14:48:17 <jjmarin> but, we can include this as well
14:48:24 <joanie> awesome
14:48:44 <clown> sorry, but remind me of the dealine again.  I was going to work on it this week, but there were other fires to put out.
14:48:49 <jjmarin> so far peformance + gs-mag caret and focus tracking
14:48:51 <joanie> #action Team members who want something funded need to get proposals to jjmarin
14:48:55 <clown> "deadline"
14:49:05 <API> jjmarin, well, yes
14:49:10 <jjmarin> joanie: thanks !
14:49:11 <joanie> clown: yesterday ;-)
14:50:04 <API> well, anything else on this point?
14:50:27 <API> jjmarin, ?
14:50:29 <jjmarin> do we have any idea of the money for each of these goals ?
14:50:48 <API> jjmarin, this is one of the reasons they want a specific proposal
14:50:51 <jjmarin> I mean, we should provide what we want to do and how much we need
14:51:06 <API> some felt that a project like that
14:51:12 <API> would be too ambitious
14:51:22 <API> in order to check if that should be splitted or something
14:52:03 <joanie> clown: probably goes without saying given what jjmarin and API just said, but if your proposal could include a figure, that would be good I suspect. :-)
14:52:47 * clown1 university's network is really flakey today. ...
14:52:57 <clown1> what did I miss?
14:53:12 <API> <joanie> clown: probably goes without saying given what jjmarin and API just said, but if your proposal could include a figure, that would be good I suspect. :-)
14:53:12 <API> * clown1 (~clown@205.211.169.2) has joined #a11y-meeting
14:53:12 <API> * clown1 university's network is really flakey today. ...
14:53:12 <API> <clown1> what did I miss?
14:53:43 <jjmarin> Well, I think I don't have more to say
14:53:43 <clown1> thanks API.
14:54:10 <API> jjmarin, ok so lets move
14:54:20 <API> #topic GNOME 3.2 progress
14:54:21 * clown1 wired network is completely down.  reports are some construction crew cut the fibre optic ...
14:54:32 <API> at this moment I guess that the bit topic here is talk about
14:54:35 <API> pygobject madness
14:54:36 <joanie> "call before you dig"
14:54:39 <API> joanie, jhernandez ?
14:54:47 <API> something to report?
14:54:49 <joanie> jhernandez: you first?
14:55:27 * joanie wonders if nacho got the release off
14:55:32 <jhernandez> joanie: you first!
14:55:33 <jhernandez> :P
14:55:46 <joanie> hah
14:55:49 * clown1 herding cats ...
14:56:01 <API> joanie, nacho?
14:56:02 <joanie> #info Joanie committed Orca's introspection port in time for 3.1.90.
14:56:25 <clown1> congratulations, joanie!
14:56:26 <joanie> #info Orca now depends on pygobject 3.1.90 due to recent fixes in that module.
14:56:51 <joanie> #info John Palmieri then failed to do a release of pygobject 2.90.3.
14:57:18 <joanie> #info The release team pinged Joanie, also pinged John, and in theory Nacho did a pygobject 2.90.3 release.
14:57:52 <joanie> #info Joanie is well aware of a number of bugs and issues resulting from the introspection work. Some are in Orca, some in Gtk+, some remain to be found.
14:58:00 <API> joanie: from #release-team
14:58:02 <API> <fredp> the missing piece was pygobject, and it arrived during the meeting
14:58:02 <API> <mclasen> yeah
14:58:22 <joanie> #info Joanie is both optimistic and fearful of getting things out in time for shipping GNOME 3.2, but she'll do her very best.
14:58:57 <joanie> #info Piñeiro reported from #release-team that the release of pygobject has been done.
14:58:59 <joanie> (done)
14:59:03 <joanie> API thanks for checking!!
14:59:08 <API> and in fact
14:59:09 <API> http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/pygobject/2.90/
14:59:23 <joanie> API I was going to look while jhernandez did his report
14:59:26 <API> the files are thre
14:59:28 <joanie> but then jhernandez told me to go first
14:59:30 <API> there
14:59:58 <joanie> jhernandez: your turn
15:00:10 <jhernandez> so, Accerciser is in the same state as Orca is
15:00:42 <jhernandez> we have some known issues regarding pygobject/gtk/whatever
15:00:45 <joanie> jhernandez: #info is your friend :-P
15:01:26 <jhernandez> #info jhernandez accomplished accerciser's introspection port for 2.1.90
15:01:46 <jhernandez> s/2/3/
15:01:49 <jhernandez> :]
15:02:29 <jhernandez> #info there are some known issues regarding pygobject/gtk/whatever and I'm working on them
15:02:49 <joanie> jhernandez: known issues are going to kill us
15:02:56 <jhernandez> joanie: :P
15:03:06 * clown unknown issues just stab you in the back.
15:03:18 <jhernandez> clown: for sure!
15:03:19 <jhernandez> xD
15:03:22 <jhernandez> so, I'm done
15:03:37 <joanie> jhernandez: congrats on your release!
15:03:48 <jhernandez> joanie: congrats for yours too!!
15:03:54 <jhernandez> ;)
15:03:56 <joanie> (ours)
15:03:57 <joanie> ;-)
15:04:01 <jhernandez> :]
15:05:07 <API> well, so in summary all the modules using old gtk bindings were ported, right?
15:05:29 <joanie> API all a11y modules
15:05:33 <joanie> to our knowledge
15:05:54 <joanie> everyone else, who knows?
15:06:28 <jhernandez> API: AFAIK, yes
15:07:06 <API> well, good news
15:07:18 <API> so the only "old stuff" still around is gconf
15:07:22 <API> right?
15:07:36 <bnitz> API:I'm not sure "everything" is true.
15:07:42 <bnitz> But maybe everything within gnome.
15:07:48 <bnitz> I'm working on fixes for LDTP and mago
15:07:51 * joanie doesn't have any gcof
15:07:54 <joanie> or gconf
15:08:03 <API> although I guess that with the gconf-dbus background that is less important
15:08:12 <API> <bnitz> API:I'm not sure "everything" is true.
15:08:15 <API> I don't understand
15:08:23 <API> what it is "everything"?
15:08:35 <jhernandez> accerciser uses gconf for only to store its preferences, but I'm working on the gsettings port
15:09:34 <joanie> jhernandez: and we still need to revisit, merge your gsettings work for Orca ;-)
15:09:56 <bnitz> API:I think I just repeated what joanie said, in a less clear way ;-).
15:10:30 <API> bnitz, ah ok
15:10:33 * joanie grins
15:10:54 <joanie> speaking Piñeiro takes years of practice bnitz :-P
15:10:59 <joanie> eventually you'll master it.
15:11:03 * joanie runs and hides
15:11:10 <jhernandez> joanie: you're right! ;)
15:11:24 <API> ok, so using #infor
15:11:48 <API> #info a11y modules are already ported to new pygobject, as far as the a11y team knows
15:12:04 <API> #info work to migrate to gsettings is really near to be finished
15:12:13 <API> ok, something else about gnome 3.2
15:12:17 <API> I will try to ask clown
15:12:27 <API> hoping that he will be connected long enough
15:12:32 <clown> API, go ahead try...
15:12:46 <API> it seems that some of your gs-mag thing will not be ready for 3.2...
15:13:10 <clown> that appears to be correct.  no go ahead on committing any of the patches.
15:13:23 * joanie frowns
15:13:35 <API> clown, I was reviewing some of your bugs
15:13:37 <joanie> clown: nice try on getting them through
15:13:45 <API> and it seems that it is related to some of the work moved to clutter
15:13:55 <API> and due being on API frozen mode now
15:14:07 <API> is this the reason for the "no go ahead" or there is something more?
15:14:20 <joanie> #info Joanie notes that, for the record, Joseph did tons of work and responded in a timely fashion to feedback provided to him.
15:14:30 <clown> thanks, joanie.
15:14:46 <clown> I don't know of anything more, API.
15:14:56 <joanie> clown: thank YOU. Some things are simply beyond our control :-/
15:15:10 <clown> I responded to criticisms, made changes to code, and supplied new patches.
15:15:24 <clown> but, there was always "one more thing" to improve.
15:15:38 <clown> that is, the reviewer asked for another change or changes.
15:15:39 <API> joanie, well, this is the point "tons of work"
15:15:41 <joanie> I know clown
15:15:48 <clown> and time just went past the deadline.
15:16:08 <API> clown, yes thats true, it seems that they always ask your for the finished version
15:16:16 <API> sometimes they are more conservative than me ;
15:16:17 <API> )
15:16:21 <clown> although... in one case, there was not a full review of my patch -- that's the inverse video, brightness, and contrast effects.
15:17:24 <API> but that was the one moved to clutter, right?
15:18:17 <API> well, as time passes and so on, joanie provided a #info with some conclusions, but there is a little lack of context
15:18:25 <API> clown, could you summarize all this in a pretty #info
15:18:26 <clown> yes, about two weeks ago, when it looked like GS would review it, the suggestion was to move parts of it to clutter.
15:18:42 <clown> API, info's comin up...
15:19:12 <clown> #info Joseph's feature additions to gs-mag will not be ready for 3.2
15:19:38 <clown> #info these include a gnome-control-center zoom options dialog for the current gs-mag preferences.
15:20:02 <clown> #info inverse video, brightness, and contrast effects for gs-mag.
15:20:29 <clown> #info new gsettings for those three screen effects (gsettings-desktop-schemas).
15:21:02 <clown> #info near the 3.2 deadline, the suggestion was to move the effects to up stream to clutter
15:21:29 <clown> #info clutter developer is okay with that, but doesn't want to add the classes util October time frame.
15:21:48 <clown> #info summary:  gs-mag feature improvements missed the 3.2 deadline.
15:21:56 <clown> I think that captures it.
15:22:47 <clown> so... done
15:22:57 <joanie> thanks clown
15:23:07 <joanie> 3.4 here we come! :-)
15:23:34 <API> anyone else has something to add about 3.2?
15:23:46 <jjmarin> Remind: dear members of the a11y team, we have some release notes for 3.2 first :-)
15:23:54 <jjmarin> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ReleaseNotes/ThreePointTwo
15:23:54 <joanie> :-)
15:24:22 <API> there is any kind of #reminder thing in meetbot?
15:24:30 <joanie> I dunno
15:24:33 <joanie> I shall find out
15:24:38 <jjmarin> #help
15:24:45 <jjmarin> hmmm
15:24:50 <joanie> jjmarin: later
15:24:59 <API> ok, as workaround
15:25:14 <API> #info jjmarin reminds to all a11y members the need to fill the release notes
15:25:23 <API> 5 minutes till the  end
15:25:29 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
15:25:31 <clown> jjmarin, help just assigns a person to provide some aid (not sure what that entails).
15:26:03 <joanie> #help (alias #halp)
15:26:03 <joanie> Add a HELP item to the minutes. Confusingly, this does not give supybot help. See #commands.
15:26:05 <clown> #commands
15:26:05 <tota11y> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #rejected #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk
15:26:29 <API> guys, focus
15:26:30 <API> ;)
15:26:34 <joanie> I have something for misc time
15:26:39 <clown> #focus
15:26:40 <API> miscellaneous time is not so miscellaneous
15:26:44 <API> a11y stuff please ;)
15:26:58 <joanie> mgorse: what's the status on the check a11y work?
15:27:16 <jjmarin> "check a11y work" ?
15:27:28 <joanie> org.a11y.Status.IsEnabled
15:27:37 <joanie> can be read but not written
15:27:40 <joanie> etc.
15:27:50 <jjmarin> ok
15:27:52 <joanie> in other words, we need a freedesktop solution to check if a11y is enabled
15:28:13 <joanie> not a gnome key versus a kde environment var versus whatever xfce does
15:28:29 <mgorse> yeah, right now it can be read but not written
15:28:56 <mgorse> except that it might not work right if a11y is toggled until the session is restarted; it works by checking whether the accessibility bus is active
15:28:57 <joanie> mgorse: so dumb question. If it "cannot be written" does that mean no one can set it?
15:29:05 <clown> "org.freedesktop.a11y.Status.Enabled"?
15:29:21 <mgorse> yeah
15:29:32 <joanie> yeah to which?
15:29:53 <mgorse> a11y can't be toggled that way yet
15:30:23 <clown> what process(es) can toggle it?
15:30:41 <mgorse> gsettings for GNOME
15:31:28 <joanie> mgorse: do we have an estimated time for full implementation so that we have a reliable, freedesktop-wide solution we can all use?
15:32:43 <mgorse> If people really want that in for 3.2, then I can try to work on it, although I presume I need permission from the release team
15:33:11 <joanie> Oh, I'd love it for 3.2 because then we can get it used by xfce
15:33:24 <joanie> not that we'd say that as a justification. ;-)
15:34:06 * joanie wonders if our fearless RT member could get that change blessed
15:34:39 <API> well, it seems just a little addition
15:34:44 <API> that nobody is using
15:34:51 <API> I mean that it would be different if
15:35:04 <API> we were talking about something that all people are using and we
15:35:12 <API> were planning to modigy somehow
15:35:23 <API> but that just my humble opinion ;)
15:35:29 <joanie> :-)
15:35:43 <joanie> mgorse: could you do a patch on a bug so we can ask for blessing?
15:35:48 <API> mgorse, you could try to send again that mail asking if it makes sense
15:35:48 <joanie> please
15:35:54 <API> well, makes sense
15:35:57 <API> it makes sense
15:36:08 <API> I mean if people think that can be added before 3.2
15:36:13 <mgorse> I'd also need to test that it works to enable/disable a11y at runtime, which is the main reason I didn't commit it with the other change.  I ought to have done this sooner; it just slipped my mind / never made it onto my to-do list
15:36:16 <API> if nobody ask I could try to ping people on IRC
15:36:46 <mgorse> API: For a feature freeze break, should I have a patch first, and then email release-team?
15:36:46 <joanie> API ping people == ?
15:37:34 <API> mgorse, not sure if this is a requirement but it would make things easier
15:37:48 <API> you could also try to send the mail first, to at least check
15:37:55 <API> if they are receptive
15:38:04 <API> joanie, next release team meeting is planed in one month
15:38:10 <joanie> ah
15:38:11 <mgorse> Regardless, working on a patch won't hurt, since we'll need it anyway, whether it goes into 3.2 or not
15:38:20 <joanie> +1 mgorse
15:38:20 <API> ping people means: hey, have you seen mgorse mail? what do you think?
15:38:28 <joanie> API I know what ping means
15:38:30 <API> so getting the bless via IRC instead ml
15:38:33 <joanie> I meant what people and why
15:39:02 <API> joanie, well, people==release team folks, why==next meeting in a month more or less
15:39:10 <joanie> anyway, mgorse you rock thanks!!!
15:39:18 <joanie> API thanks for the clarification
15:39:29 <API> well in fact
15:39:31 <API> - next meeting: September 15th, 18UTC
15:39:49 <joanie> that's only two weeks away. mgorse how much work is involved?
15:40:35 <mgorse> Oh wow   3.1.91 is this coming Monday?!
15:40:45 <joanie> zomg really?
15:40:46 <joanie> crap
15:40:55 <joanie> that means I don't get to sleep again
15:41:02 <joanie> frick
15:41:22 <joanie> jhernandez: you see that ^^ ?
15:41:26 <jhernandez> yepo
15:41:28 <jhernandez> :S
15:41:31 <clown> Monday is labour day.  North Amercian holiday, at least.
15:41:32 <API> mgorse, joanie
15:41:32 <mgorse> It would have been two weeks from .90 with the original .90 date, so I guess the release team delayed .90 but not .91
15:41:33 <joanie> .91 is typically code freeze
15:41:34 <API> https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointOne
15:42:05 <API> an .92 hard code freeze
15:42:17 <joanie> phew
15:42:18 <API> 
15:42:18 <API> Sep 19
15:42:18 <API> 
15:42:18 <API> GNOME 3.1.92 rc tarballs due
15:42:18 <API> 
15:42:20 <API> Hard Code Freeze: no source code changes can be made without approval from the release-team. Translation and documentation can continue.
15:43:04 <joanie> #info For the record, Joanie would like it known that she knows exactly where the schedule happens to be but is sleep deprived and has a migraine due to getting the introspection work done. :-P
15:43:47 <API> oke 15 minutes over time
15:43:51 <API> lets finish this
15:43:58 <API> thanks people for coming here
15:44:01 <API> #endmeeting