Meeting Summary

• Meeting started by Joanie at 14:36:58 UTC.
• Meeting ended at 15:35:10 UTC.
• Participants (Lines Said):
  • Joanie - joanie (126)
  • Mike - mgorse (19)
  • Juanjo - jjmarin (11)
  • Brian - bnitz (9)
  • Patrick - prlw1 (7)
  • machado (5)

  • Alan - AlanBell (3)

• Log

Collection Interface

• Aline was working on documentation for AtspiCollection and had questions and doubts.

• Aline asked Mike and Joanie about them, and Mike and Joanie were not sure either.
• Joanie started looking through the code to see if she could help explain the interface to Aline.

• Upon seeing what all was present, and reviewing what she needed to do in Orca, Joanie asked a number of questions on the devel list:

• Only Ariel answered and his answers were not complete and still left questions and doubts.

• We're going to be implementing AtkCollection, and Joanie thinks this mess needs sorting out.

• The driving factor for why we need to do AtkCollection sooner rather than later is because LibreOffice needs such a solution in place because they refuse to expose full documents and spreadsheets to ATs.

• Most members present did not have definitive thoughts on the topic as they had not looked into it. However the following comments were made:

  • Juanjo: 'I guess that if the new one (edit: assumed to be the changes Joanie proposed on the mailing list) means some improvement, this makes sense'

  • Patrick: 'An opinion is: KISS is good: I just got rid of over 1500 lines of dasher code on Friday, so simplify interfaces. Orca is a good consumer. If you haven't needed these functions, then it sounds as though they superfluous. That's just an "opinion" though - I have never used collections!'
  • Alan: 'Some of the stuff in there, getting objects by chuncks looks like they were useful performance hacks for the PCs of the time... What is the harm in leaving them?'

  • Joanie responded to Alan that she was not proposing removing all of the current collection, but rather removing that which is superfluous, and then making what remains more clear/less confusing, the goal being that we want AT-SPI2 and ATK to be in sync. Joanie questions the value of spending resources on implementing a less-than-ideal, unnecessary complex AtkCollection simply to parallel what we have currently in AT-SPI2. Instead she thinks we should figure out what the interface should look like, both AT-SPI2 and ATK.

  • Juanjo: 'If collection is just a performance hack, we can reconsider the performance problem and find another approach that it easier to get AT-SPI2 and ATK in sync.'
• ACTION: Team members are encouraged to comment on the mailing list thread.

Should we back out the fix for Bug 656004?

• Edit/Correction: Really the question is, should we back out the fix for Bug 655127 because that fix causes Bug 656004. This detail is not reflected in the minutes or the log.

• Mike will investigate whether there is a crash without the fix for 656004 with the newest pygobject since it apparently *causes* a crash for some people, possibly depending on the version of pygobject used. In addition, the API is inconsistent, since collections still use GArrays.

Action Item Updates

• Yesterday Juanjo compiled the branch from the wxWidgets GSoC that is porting wxWidgets to GTK+ 3. He will take a look to the code and the a11y support and bring his conclusions here ASAP.
• Brian is building Gedit 3.1.3 and other components using jhbuild on the latest a11y test distro. He finds that LDTP and Mago do not work. He modified LDTP and Mago to use gi for wnck import but still needs work to port mago to use gsettings.
• Brian still has to complete the documentation of accessibility testing tools.
• With respect to investigating what other resources we have/can draw upon to achieve the desktop performance testing work: Joanie has drafted a proposal for a contract. That proposal is still being reviewed by Piñeiro. But the amount proposed ($25,000 US) was included in the team budget. Pending Piñeiro's approval, the plan is to then submit it to the GNOME Foundation Board for approval. And if the Foundation Board approves it, we shall then put it out for bid.

Action Items

New

• Team:
  • Comment on the mailing list thread with their thoughts on the Collection interface(s)

Ongoing / Rolled-Over

• Team:
  • Check how Mike's change improves desktop performance (i.e. with a11y on and no AT listening).
• Ale:
  • Look for the python-gobject testing-distro bug and talk with jhernandez to try to fix it and create a new spin.
• Brian:
  • Send a mail summarizing his proposal regarding a testing-centered design.
  • Announce his Mago tests on the gnome-accessibility-devel list, and also create a README and INSTALL.
• Javi:
  • Spin a new (and possibly the last accessibility-specific) spin of the testing distro once he has the new tarball from Joanie and any other required changes requested by our team.
• Joseph:

  • Explore the JavaScript Atspi import further to see how much is available.

• Juanjo:
  • Investigate wxWidgets' internals and how it uses Gtk+
• Mike:
  • File a bug regarding GAIL treeview children / children-changed signals, attach a patch, and call for testers.
  • Modify libatspi to fill in the index when possible (ie, when it has the child cached, which it will not for trees with MANAGES_DESCENDANTS for instance)
• Piñeiro:

  • Update the AtkObject:children-changed documentation, as this could be also used on ATK implementors